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toplvl2021-03-19 05:28 pm
insertusername) wrote in toplvl2021-03-19 05:28 pm
aita?
am i the asshole?
Life isn’t always black and white. Sometimes it’s hard to tell who’s really at fault, and no one wants to believe they’re the bad guy. Sometimes you need an outside opinion. Or several.
Tell your side of the story and crowdsource an honest answer to the age old question; Am I The Asshole?
no subject
We're on the same page when it comes to what needs to happen to Palpatine. What I am saying is that there is a reason why his apprentice and I have not attempted to remove him yet, even after we realized that the necessity of it was inescapable: even in death, he might manage to take the rest of the galaxy down with him, and that is what I have been working to try to prevent. This goes back to the threats external to the Empire that I mentioned. The Empire doesn't have the luxury of simply fighting out its internal contradictions when there's one powerful and influential enemy already making incursions on its borders, and it's only one of many. A new Republic and one or more Imperial remnants locked in civil war will be at an extreme, even lethal, disadvantage in facing those threats.
When it comes to the Force, it's true that my view of it is much more restricted than yours, and that may mean that not all of my priorities are totally correct when it comes to handling Palpatine. However, my top priority will always be protecting the common people of the galaxy. I joined the Empire because it was - and still is - the political entity best poised to save them from annihilation, or worse. For the moment, it must be preserved - if nothing else, then as an emergency makeshift whose entire purpose is to weather the coming storm, to handle threats that a new Republic built along the lines of the old would be structurally incapable of facing.
[Still, he doesn't expect Ezra to get it just yet. Actually, it would be nice if he never has to understand the ugliness of necessity the way Thrawn does - if he could remain at least partially untainted by the cynicism and grim moral calculus the rest of the galaxy runs on. Thrawn's seen the toll such things have taken on other - former - Jedi, as well as on the leaders of both the Empire and the Rebellion, although in the latter case he's only been able to observe it indirectly. Protecting Ezra from that wouldn't be much, but it wouldn't be nothing, either, and sometimes the small victories are the ones that help Thrawn sleep at night. And besides, Thrawn's always preferred to have people by his side who are willing to challenge him, to help keep him honest.]
As for "economics and militarism," there's one thing I want you to keep in mind, for now. Where I come from, we have a saying: "war is the continuation of economic policy by other means." Remember it. It will help you gain a more complete understanding of what you're up against.
no subject
The Empire's stable, it'll protect us from other threats. We can't wage open war on the Empire because it'll cause instability in the senate. You just have to wait. It's temporary. You need to have patience.
The funnier thing is, none of that ever did any good for my people. The Republic and the Empire are all the same to me, neither one cares what happens to Lothal. Lothal wasn't useful in the Clone Wars so our struggles were ignored. When the Empire realized they could exploit us, they turned the planet into a wasteland without a second thought. I'm sure somewhere that meant that the "common people of the galaxy" were being protected. It's all worth it for the greater good, right?
Maybe I'm a bad Jedi. Or maybe I'm just a bad person. But I don't care. The planet of Lothal called out to me in the Force. I refused to ignore it. I know I can't save everyone, I've accepted that. And I admit that I don't know what'll happen to the rest of the galaxy. But there's no way the Empire was the best choice to save Lothal. It told me as much.
I'll try my best to remember all this and keep it in mind, but don't try and justify what happened on Lothal. You can't.
Oh, and the longer you and Vader keep stalling with Palpatine, the more time he has to ensure the galaxy will suffer once he's gone. Or to ensure he'll never be gone. I'm more worried about that one, honestly.
no subject
[And therein lies the issue. The Republic had let that foundation decay for centuries, and the Empire is more like a brace to hold the crumbling edifice in place on top of it than anything truly new. Exert too much force, and the whole thing will fall apart, taking everyone inside down with it - but either way, it's bound to collapse at some point. There's never a good time for it, but now might be the worst. And even Thrawn can barely begin to grasp the sheer scope of the work it would take to build something new.]
You're not a bad person, and I don't fault you for your priorities. You're also not a bad Jedi - I've met bad Jedi, and they fell into two categories. The first were those who listened to the High Council, had no faith in their own judgment, and let their supposed betters dictate every aspect of how they should think and act. The Jedi Order was already dead on its feet before Palpatine struck the final blow, because people like that made up its majority, and the Order was unable to innovate, unable to adapt, and unable to perceive its broader surroundings because of it. The way one of the Inquisitors expressed it has always stuck with me: "The groupthink had grown narrower and narrower until it was nothing more than the slaughterhouse chute leading them all like nerfs to the killing floor."
The second type were the opposite of the first - the Council themselves, and others, who thought the Force had given them infallible wisdom and the right to control not just the behavior but the thoughts of others, and that being masters of tradition made them the masters of the Order's future. They were the ones who dragged the Jedi into the Clone Wars in the role that they were least suited to.
You fit neither type.
[If he had, Thrawn might not have bothered with the offer that they work together. He might have simply eliminated Ezra at the earliest possible moment.]
...And you could be right about Palpatine. Either way, it's entirely possible there isn't an ideal solution to the problem he poses - he may on occasion be blinded by megalomania, but he's not stupid. He's thought his plans through, and taken some care in setting them all up. And he's given us an exceedingly nasty situation to deal with.
[Once he can reestablish contact, he'll have to check with Lord Vader as to whether the outcome Ezra thinks could've occurred on Lothal is even possible - but for now, all that matters is that Ezra thinks it was. And as for Palpatine doing more damage the longer he's alive, well, the existence of the Death Star makes that argument. It represents resources wasted on an almost unthinkable scope, and rather than the Empire's ultimate weapon, it is its weak point - all because Palpatine wanted the fear it creates, and wanted the monument to his own ego.]
no subject
[The dark side comes easily to him, even without any teaching at first. At times, it was easier to access than the light. He almost turned when he was given the chance to save Kanan, after all. This would probably make him a very bad Jedi in the old Order's eyes.]
I don't think we should cling to the past, but I think... we need to be more aware of it than we are. Lothal had forgotten its past. And if I'm not careful, I'll end up repeating the mistakes of the old Jedi Order. Part of Palpatine's goal is to erase and reform the past to his liking. I grew up not knowing the Force existed, when my planet literally had a Jedi Temple on it and its own Force tradition long before that.
If you've actually met Jedi like you claim, you... might know more about them than I do. I've already done what I could to save Lothal and defeat the Empire. At least for now. Next... I have to figure out the future of the Jedi.
no subject
[He is, at least, willing to concede a little bit on the importance of hope. The material conditions are important, but they aren't everything. They're more akin to terrain than anything else; there are ways to hold and ways to reshape any type of terrain, and sometimes the most difficult ground can be held and controlled with the fewest defenders. Thrawn wouldn't be where he is - or where he was - if individual initiative didn't matter. And he figures experience more than words will round the "no strategy just vibes" corners off Ezra's approach where necessary; he suspects not all of them will have to go.
It's difficult to forget what his former commanding officer, Admiral Ar'alani, had said to him the last time they'd met: "Someday, Mitth’raw’nuruodo, you’ll overthink and overplan, and it will come crashing down all around you. When that happens, I hope someone is there to lift you back to your feet." And it's difficult to be completely skeptical of the thought that perhaps the Force had brought him and Ezra together to balance each other.
Many of the Jedi he's known, he'd met after they were Jedi; perhaps the Dark Side doesn't faze him as much as it ought to, because that experience has led him to suspect it doesn't change the core of one's personality. For the Inquisitors, that is what allows Palpatine and Vader to keep them in line - and Vader, for whom he has an actual basis for comparison, seems to back up his hypothesis. Even mutilated, half-mad from pain and constant infections, tortured physically and psychologically by his master, Lord Vader is still capable of understanding kindness, and of responding well to being treated well, once he realizes it isn't a ruse to get him to let down his guard and thereby hurt him worse.]
Erasing and reforming the past to his liking is what Palpatine has already done, in a less literal way - again, destruction of information is a tactic the Sith have embraced over the ages. Lothal didn't forget; its past was stolen from it. That is how imperialist colonization always operates. In the right hands, history is not just a weapon, but an entire arsenal, so colonizers always make an effort to deprive the masses of it.
Lothal isn't the only victim of that tactic, and the Empire are not the only ones carrying it out. The enemy I mentioned earlier, the one already making forays into Imperial territory, is known as the Grysk Hegemony - and it is fortunate that they consider an alliance with the Empire to be far beneath their dignity, as their approach to ruling through fear and cultural dislocation makes Palpatine's look childish and inept. I am planning to go and break their stranglehold over the Unknown Regions. It would make things somewhat easier if you would join me - but if you would prefer to return home and enjoy your victory, I'll make the necessary arrangements when possible.
no subject
And then... we'll see, I guess. I don't think I'm the type to "enjoy" a victory.
[He'd be lying if he said there wasn't something appealing about jumping from one war into another. Not on the surface, but... it's all he's ever known. Fighting's easier than rebuilding the Jedi Order. It's probably easier than being a normal person at this point. Being stranded makes him restless, upset at the fact he can't do anything else, but he wonders if that feeling will only magnify once he returns home.
Ezra considers mentioning how annoying it is that Thrawn clearly knows all the way the Empire's super super evil and still decided to side with them. But he swallows his words and moves onto something more productive.]
While we're waiting for all that, there's something I'd like to ask of you too. I know I probably owe you after destroying your career, and ship, and crew, and plans, but. I don't really care.
[And probably Thrawn needs him more than he needs him, but that seems too rude to say out loud even for him.]
I wanna know what the Jedi were like. Everything I was told came from those who grew up in the Order, or those who fought against it. An outsider's perspective could be useful. On the Sith too, since you were working closely with them apparently. And if you don't mind... what the Chiss Force tradition is like.
Seems like we'll have plenty of time before we can actually strike. While you plan, I figure I should study.
no subject
Actually, the Chiss Force tradition is probably the one you'll be learning the most about, because that is the one we'll likely be relying on to get us back to known space. Among the Chiss, Force sensitivity manifests primarily in the form of what we call Third Sight - the ability to see into the future, in a way very similar to how the Jedi use that power in combat. However, we've found a much different use for it. The Unknown Regions are such a morass of unstable hyperlanes and uncharted mass shadows that traditional navicomps are all but useless out here, so we rely largely on our Force sensitives as Navigators instead. The technique seems to be relatively straightforward for someone Jedi-trained to pick up.
((Around here is probably a good place to wrap thread, because I still need to make a lot of decisions about what Thrawn actually does and doesn't know about the Jedi and Sith and how he'd explain it. Which I am totally open to input on if you're interested in another thread that includes something specific about either one!))